tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post6075530009927934870..comments2023-07-06T15:14:57.204+01:00Comments on JOHN'S BLOG: CheckpointJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-2866586171477832482007-09-14T22:08:00.000+01:002007-09-14T22:08:00.000+01:00Worth adding that all the best people I know for l...Worth adding that all the best people I know for leading churches are male.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-38878297930074932662007-09-14T21:56:00.000+01:002007-09-14T21:56:00.000+01:00Thanks for the comments, Custard and Jeremy.The pr...Thanks for the comments, Custard and Jeremy.<BR/><BR/>The problem with your analogy between the state and the church, Custard, is that it is usually possible for an objector to attend a church that isn't led by a woman, whereas it isn't usually possible for the citizens under a repressive government to go to another state. It certainly wasn't possible for the Christians that Paul was writing to Daniel Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823511443088751096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-10260359563680620112007-09-12T17:18:00.000+01:002007-09-12T17:18:00.000+01:00What sort of wrong might women leading churches be...What sort of wrong might women leading churches be ?<BR/><BR/>To clarify, it might be wrong for X to be a bishop because he was useless at it. In that case there would seem no case for refusing that bishop's authority.<BR/><BR/>It might be wrong for Y to be a bishop because he didn't believe in God. In that case there would seem a case for refusing his authority.<BR/><BR/>Whether Daniel Hill's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-83402101151772110572007-09-12T12:03:00.000+01:002007-09-12T12:03:00.000+01:00Daniel - exactly the same arguments could be used ...Daniel - exactly the same arguments could be used against submission to a repressive government such as Nero's, yet Paul and Peter urge submission.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-56233437369207434442007-09-12T11:26:00.000+01:002007-09-12T11:26:00.000+01:00'I certainly don't see arguments for men refusing ...'I certainly don't see arguments for men refusing to submit to women who are in a position of authority in churches.'<BR/><BR/>Surely if one thinks that it is wrong for women to be in such positions of authority one would have to think that it would be wrong to submit to them, since such submission would be (a) a tacit consent to the arrangement and (b) material co-operation with the arrangement?Daniel Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823511443088751096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-37063725585194271132007-09-11T22:27:00.000+01:002007-09-11T22:27:00.000+01:00It was intended to be you. On the whole disagreein...It was intended to be you. <BR/><BR/>On the whole disagreeing thing - precisely.<BR/><BR/>On the hierarchical thing - I think authority does exist but should be used as service rather than as ruling and the question is whether that service/enabling role is restricted to men.<BR/><BR/>It does raise the question of what authentein means in 1 Tim 2 though - if it means something that men shouldn't Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-64640012705305322942007-09-11T22:08:00.000+01:002007-09-11T22:08:00.000+01:00"There's a regular commenter on here who I think i..."There's a regular commenter on here who I think is an evangelical charismatic Roman Catholic"<BR/><BR/>Is it me? If so, I'm not sure about the 'charismatic' bit, but then I haven't had any identity crises for a while so it may well feature one day. <BR/><BR/>For what it's worth I think that some of the RC teachings are flawed, but not so much so that I would want to leave. Besides I think all Gingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08330196582825230156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-71681095869920521962007-09-11T14:15:00.000+01:002007-09-11T14:15:00.000+01:00I certainly don't see arguments for men refusing t...<I>I certainly don't see arguments for men refusing to submit to women who are in a position of authority in churches.</I><BR/><BR/>One point I'd make as a dyed in the wool egalitarian: I don't believe in top-down authority structures.<BR/><BR/>Complimentarianism does seem to assume a hierarchical authority structure as a 'given'; as far as I can tell, complimentarianism doesn't really examine PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.com