tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post2621684344254469990..comments2023-07-06T15:14:57.204+01:00Comments on JOHN'S BLOG: On Women in Ministry...Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-80675123123100781482012-05-19T13:55:44.690+01:002012-05-19T13:55:44.690+01:00I don't think it's exegetically correct to...I don't think it's exegetically correct to say `when Barak doesn't lead properly, Deborah does'. Deborah goes up *with* Barak (4: 9 and 4: 10), but it is Barak that summons the others (4: 10), and the men go under `his' (not `their') command (4: 10; cf. 5: 15). Deborah then passes on a prophecy to Barak (4: 11), but it seems from the word `Go' (rather than `Come') Daniel Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823511443088751096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-86473728392328821972012-05-19T08:06:31.656+01:002012-05-19T08:06:31.656+01:00I think we agree about the main point of Deborah -...I think we agree about the main point of Deborah - Barak is a complete wimp. But because of that, several issues come up.<br /><br />First, Deborah is described as a prophetess. She clearly has some kind of leadership / teaching role, even if under the authority of Barak.<br /><br />Second, when Barak doesn't lead properly, Deborah does, and that is seen as ok. But many conservative Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-60219181725861948932012-05-19T06:12:59.088+01:002012-05-19T06:12:59.088+01:00Good questions.
One comment on Deborah though - I...Good questions.<br /><br />One comment on Deborah though - I'm puzzled why Judges 4 is ever used as a pro-egalitarian argument. The bulk of the story revolves around Barak being a wimp and how he is judged for his refusal to assume 'male headship'. Isn't verse 9 the punchline?John Smutshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08210386968063020163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-41712323165434051172012-04-28T07:58:52.773+01:002012-04-28T07:58:52.773+01:00This is what, for what it's worth, I think th...This is what, for what it's worth, I think that the opponents of female bishops think. Not all give the same answers to your questions, of course.<br />(1) I think most would say here that while you are right that there are many requirements in Scripture for overseers/bishops, this is the only one that the C of E is *intentionally* going against at the moment. If the C of E said `we know Daniel Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823511443088751096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-55004490673063214502012-04-27T20:23:19.534+01:002012-04-27T20:23:19.534+01:00Agreed they aren't talking about bishops in th...Agreed they aren't talking about bishops in the full C of E sense. For starters, overseers in the NT are always <b>members</b> of a local church, which makes a lot more sense...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02487495921222083129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18654361.post-67730922817777717332012-04-27T18:45:02.748+01:002012-04-27T18:45:02.748+01:00Hi John,
let me kick things off (as an 'oppone...Hi John,<br />let me kick things off (as an 'opponent').<br />Q1) Yes - there are several requirements in Scripture (though it is not particularly clear that they are referring to a 'bishop' as defined by the CofE, not that I think that this matters hugely. I don't think that any opponent is suggesting that we can select any single requirement and ignore the others though - Mike Dowlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337895548594974706noreply@blogger.com